KIRK CAMERON NO LONGER BELIEVES IN ETERNAL CONSCIOUS TORMENT AS FATE OF UNBELIEVERS

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Traditionalist view of damnation ‘doesn’t seem to fit’ Old Testament, says Kirk Cameron.

I am glad Kirk has realised Scripture does not teach eternal conscious torment for unbelievers. I came to this conclusion many years ago and have even wrote a book on the subject, Lake of Fire. It is available on Amazon as a Kindle edition for just $11.99.

The majority of denominational churches teach Eternal Conscious Torment but is this really what the Bible teaches? In the first five centuries, there were six known theological schools. Four of them taught that all men would eventually be rescued from Hell (Apocatastasis): these being the theological schools at Alexandria, Antioch, Caesarea, and Edessa/Nisbis. One school, Ephesus, taught Annihilationism (sinners are totally incinerated into nothingness in Hell). Only one theological school, Rome/Carthage taught eternal punishment. There is a case for presenting the early church fathers in the main believing God will eventually restore all mankind and that the Lake of Fire is restorative at least for mankind. However, it is difficult to know what they did with the second death which is in the lake of fire and is stated as the fate of the lost. “Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power,” Revelation 20:6a. I review all the scriptures on Hell and the views of respected Christian theologian such as John Stott, C.S. Lewis and others.

“Jesus died so that we could have eternal life. But do the wicked have eternal life in Hell? And if they do, why does the Old Testament describe the fate of the wicked in the opposite terms?” Cameron asked, pointing to references using words like “destroy,” “perish” and “death” when describing the fate of the wicked.

“The soul that sins, it shall die,” he said, quoting from the prophet Ezekiel. “It will perish. It will be destroyed, which is like the ending of life, not the ongoing life forever in punishment.”

He also pointed to history and the rise and fall of nations as an illustration of what he believes happens to those who die apart from faith in Jesus Christ. “When you look at God’s judgment upon individuals or on nations, cities, empires, He says they’re gone … The symbolism is scorched earth, destroyed, gone, and their name is remembered no more,” he said. “… And they’re not coming back. It’s like forever. Which really is a better description of dying, of perishing. Not being granted eternal life so that you can be tormented forever. That doesn’t seem to fit.”

WHAT DOES THE BIBLE TEACH ON HELL?

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It is good to see more Biblical teaching on the fate of unbelievers. It is certainly not eternal conscious torment that has been the teaching of most institutional churches. Gary Black of Life, Hope, and Truth Ministries (www.lifehopeandtruth.com) explains why hell is not a place of eternal torment and how the Christian world came to that mistaken idea.

The research I did for my own book on this topic: Lake of Fire – Terminal Punishment/Second Death; Eternal Conscious Torment; Universal Redemption? (available as an ebook on Amazon) revealed that in the first five centuries, there were six known theological schools. Four of them taught that all people would eventually be rescued from Hell (Apocatastasis): these being the theological schools at Alexandria, Antioch, Caesarea, and Edessa/Nisbis. One school, Ephesus, taught Annihilationism (that sinners are totally incinerated into nothingness in the Lake of Fire). Only one theological school, Rome/Carthage taught eternal punishment. Source: The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge, Universalism entry, p. 96, Baker Book House. In fact, a case can be made that when the Church rejected a high view of God’s goodness and replaced it with a view of God as an eternal torturer, the Dark Ages began, almost to the day.

DO WE HAVE AN IMMORTAL SOUL?

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Modern, mainstream Christianity teaches that our bodies die, but we live on as souls. So why does the Bible teach something else entirely? Knowing what your soul is—and what happens to it after you die—is a core concept of Christianity. Join Gary Black as he explains both the biblical teaching of the soul and how that teaching became corrupted over the centuries.

“Then when death comes to a man, the mortal part, it seems dies, but the immortal part goes away unharmed and undestroyed withdrawing from death.” Plato, Phaedo 106e

Understanding the soul is not immortal is critical to understanding that eternal conscious torment is not the fate of the unrepentant.

“Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the Book of Life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.” Revelation 20:14-15

“But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8-9

“And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.” Matthew 10:28

THE MAJORITY OF CATHOLICS AND MAINLINE PROTESTANTS WILL ENDURE GOD’S WRATH

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More than three years after Pope Francis sparked a firestorm of religious debate by telling a young boy that his deceased atheist father might still end up in Heaven, a new study from the Pew Research Center shows a majority of Catholic and mainline Christians also believe people who don’t believe in God will go to Heaven.

Did not Jesus say, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” John 14:6.

“Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.” John 3:36

Catholic Church
Religious rituals versus relationship with the living God

What are the Christian leaders in these denominations teaching their congregations? What did Jesus accomplish on The Cross on our behalf? Does it account for nothing? And yet we know that without Jesus’ sacrifice our Heavenly Father could not have sent the Holy Spirit to indwell believers to sanctify us and enable us to live the Christian life.

Data for the Pew Research Centre study, conducted Sept. 20-26, was collected from a nationally representative sample of 6,485 U.S. adults.

Pew researchers decided for the first time to tackle deep philosophical questions like the meaning of life, the purpose of suffering, and why bad things happen to people. The national study was released amid a backdrop of major life-changing events for many, most notably the coronavirus pandemic which has claimed millions of lives globally.

In discussing American views on the afterlife, the study showed that majorities of U.S. adults believe in both Heaven and Hell, but significantly more believe in Heaven. Some 73% of respondents reported belief in Heaven, while 62% of respondents reported belief in Hell.

When it comes to Christians as a group, the study showed that the overwhelming majority of all Christian groups supported belief in Heaven. Protestants from historically black and evangelical churches were more likely than mainline Protestant Christians or Catholics to express belief in Hell.

And while 39% of all American adults, in general, believe people who don’t believe in God can still go to Heaven, 68% of Catholics and 56% of mainline Protestant Christians were found to hold this belief compared to 21% of evangelicals and 31% of Christians from historically black churches.

UNCOMFORTABLE TRUTH -THERE IS A HELL

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Jesus is the only way to heaven, hell is a real destination for those that don’t trust in Him,. How many people do you interact with every month that are on the road to eternal separation from God in Hell? 

The existence of Hell is a painful, uncomfortable, but honest truth. So, here’s the million dollar question: what are we doing about it? What are we willing to do about it?

Who in your family and what friends will not join you in the first resurrection? It takes place when Jesus returns to rapture, first those dead in Christ, and then those Saints still living. At this time, we receive bodies capable of living eternally.

Remember unbelievers souls remain in Hades for a thousand years before they are raised for judgement at the White Throne Judgement. Following which they are cast into the Lake of Fire which is the second death.

Death and Hades delivered up the dead that were in them. And they were judged each one according to his works.” Revelation 20:13

“Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:14

“Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” John 14:6

Jesus is the only way to God, Jesus is God, if you believe in Jesus you shall not perish. But if you don’t place your trust in Jesus, then you will perish. Jesus talks about this eternal perishing as second death in the Lake of Fire.

“For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” Romans 6:23.

“The truly righteous man attains life, but He who pursues evil goes to his death.” Proverbs 11:19

“Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.” James 1:14

Jesus said, “ “And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.” Matthew 10:28

That’s why the resurrection of Jesus is so central. He performed miracle after miracle, proving he was divine, including the ultimate miracle, when he rose from the dead, validating every exclusive claim he made about himself. So, when other religions honour Jesus as a prophet or a good teacher, but not the Son of God, they are not placing their trust in Jesus for forgiveness and salvation, and Jesus himself said he’s the only way to heaven.

Sadly, because the Bible is no longer believed to be the inerrant word of God, largely due to the acceptance of evolution by Bible Colleges and some denominations such as the Catholics and Anglicans, the creation story in Genesis is no longer believed as true history. Once the foundational book of the Bible was toppled other truths such as Jesus is the only way to God went as well, certainly with the Catholics.

Can I suggest you connect with http://www.creation.com to get equipped to witness to your family and friends, to defend your faith, and deliver the gospel message in a compelling way to those that have swallowed the lie of evolution and billions of years and therefore jettisoned God’s Word.

THE FIRE THAT CONSUMES

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The fire that torments forever or The fire that consumes or The Fire that purifies

How often do we hear mention of Hell and its purpose in God’s plans for us, His creation. The creation He loves so much, He sent His son to die in our place that we might be restored as His sons and daughters, and even reign with His son Jesus in a new heaven and earth.

Is what the Bible teaches on the eternal fate of the unrepentant what the traditional church now teaches on the their fate? They teach eternal conscious torment is what they will endure. Does this line up with what Jesus taught? Does it line up with God’s justice, His mercy. let alone God is love? The wages of sin is death and the gift of God is eternal life in Jesus. Eternal life only comes from believing in Jesus blood sacrifice for us. God alone is immortal as revealed by Timothy: “He who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honour and everlasting power.” 1 Timothy 6:16

“For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.” (Romans 8:13)

“The one who sows to please the sinful nature from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the spirit, from the spirit will reap eternal life.” (Galatians 6:8)

“The truly righteous man attains life, but He who pursues evil goes to his death.”  (Proverbs 11:19)

Given that life in immortality is a gift to the righteous alone, and that the soul, not being innately immortal, exists only as long as God wills it to exist (as the early church father, Justin Martyr argues), will anyone argue that a loving God would wish the soul of any human being alive throughout endless ages for no other purpose than to inflict upon them perpetual torment?

Listen to the humble American Christian theologian and lawyer, Edwin Fudge, best known for his book The Fire that Consumes. He has been called “one of the foremost scholars on hell” by The Christian Post. He is also subject of the 2012 independent film Hell and Mr Fudge.

JOEL ON THE TRADITIONAL VIEW OF HELL

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As followers of this website will know, on a recent post “Why Hell is Not Eternal Torment” I supported the Conditional Immortality (Lake of Fire – a Fire that Consumes) view. Joel Richardson in the video below supports the Traditional Eternal Torment view.

This video is the second in a series of three on Hell. In the first video, Joel interviewed a representative of   www.rethinkinghell.com who presented the Conditional Immortality view so I would suggest you start there.

For different reasons, Joel and I believe this is an important subject, and as I value his opinion and the work he is doing on the “end times”, I want you to hear him out. However, you need to ask the Holy Spirit to give you understanding of the truth, in respect to God’s justice, and to what God has in store for unbelievers after the white throne judgement.

I have comments I would like to make on this presentation but I would prefer to wait to hear what Joel has to say about the N.T scriptures and then I will respond as I hope you will too.

 

WHY HELL IS NOT ETERNAL TORMENT

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There is no “immortal soul” doctrine in the Bible. Tradition about the fate of the lost (as torment forever) is unbiblical and hermeneutically incorrect.

Jesus and James teach the soul is destructible.

“And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.” Matthew 10:28

“There is one Lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy.” James 4:12

Paul teaches that immortality is brought through the gospel.

“but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel,” 2 Timothy 1:10

Image result for pictures of biblical lake of fire

Hell was prepared for Satan and his angels. They will be tormented forever but not unbelieving humans.

  • “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels. Matthew 25:41
  • Revelation 20:10 says the devil, the beast and the false prophet will be tormented forever.

“The belief in the immortality of the soul came to the Jews from contact with Greek thought and chiefly through the philosophy of Plato, its principal exponent…” (The Jewish Encyclopedia). However, the scriptures teach the soul is destructible and immortality is part of the gospel. As shown, Paul teaches that immortality is brought through the gospel. Paul did not believe the Greek philosophy of his day which taught the immortality of all souls.

“To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honour and immortality, He will give eternal life.” Romans 2:7

I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. (John 6:51)

Why would Jesus Himself make this plain offer to “live forever” if everyone lived forever? Also, why would Jesus say people perish (die) unless they believe the Gospel.

“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.”

It is important to note that in Hebrew, the word for “life/soul” (nehphesh) is never used in conjunction with the word “everlasting” in the Old Testament writings

Likewise, in the New Testament writings, the word for “soul” (psukee) is never used in conjunction with the words “eternal” or “everlasting.”

A growing number of well-known Christian leaders, such as Dr. David R. Reagan, John R. Stott, Greg Boyd, Roger Forster (co-founder of the March for Jesus events), Philip Hughes, Michael Green, Stephen Travis, and Clark Pinnock have declared support for part, or all, of the biblical doctrine of Conditional Immortality. Even the British Bible translator, William Tyndale, defended Conditional Immortality during his lifetime. Also, the very well respected scholar F.F. Bruce states, “Eternal conscious torment is incompatible with the revealed character of God” so he chose to write the forward to an excellent evangelical book on this topic called, The Fire that Consumes by Edward Fudge.

SECOND DEATH

Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:14 

But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death. Revelation 21:8 

Why would God use “second death” if He did not mean death?

The first death is temporary. In the first death, only the body is destroyed in the graveyard. However, there will be a resurrection one day of all humanity, a bodily resurrection.

The second death will never be followed by a resurrection. In the second death, the body and soul are both destroyed (not preserved), (Matthew 10:28) forever.

Paul also tells us exactly what the punishment of the lost is:                                               

“Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction.” 2 Thessalonians 1:9   

Whose end is destruction. Philippians 3:19

But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition. (Greek: destruction) Hebrews 10:39 

That raging fire “will consume the enemies of God“ Heb. 10:27

“…it would seem strange … if people who are said to suffer destruction are in fact not destroyed; and … it is difficult to imagine a perpetually inconclusive process of perishing.“(J. Stott and D. Edwards, Essentials: A Liberal-Evangelical Dialogue, London, Hodder & Stoughton, 1988, p. 316)

The future that unbelievers face on judgement day is:

1) Suffering in proportion for their sins. Justice, in its proper amount, will be served.“And that servant, which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes.” (Luke 12: 47-48)

2) Destruction. “For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” Romans 6:23“, “the soul who sins shall die” (Ezekiel 18:4),“He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.” Revelation 2:11

They (sinners) will be cast into “unquenchable fire prepared for Satan and his minions”. It is an enduring fire which none can extinguish as Satan and his minions will be there forever. Humans who are cast into the fire will eventually BURN UP. This is the Greek word katakaio which means to burn up; consume. Jesus informs us that sinners will NOT be preserved in the fire (like in Moses and the burning bush), but rather will be “burned up“ just the opposite of preservation. “Their destiny is destruction…” Philippians 3:19. “Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction” (2 Thessalonians 1:9).

Doesn’t Revelation 14 tell us that people will be tormented forever?

They are “in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.” This is obviously when they are standing before the Great White Throne of God on Judgement Day and not in hell.

The parable that Jesus tells in Luke 19:27 teaches us that these ones will ultimately be slain in the presence of the King.

But what about the word “forever”; doesn’t the text say torment will go on forever? No. Read it very carefully. It clearly says “the smoke” will rise forever.

Doesn’t Revelation tell us that people who take the mark of the beast will have no rest day or night?

Yes, they will indeed have “no rest,” but when will this happen? It will be during the tribulation period while on this earth. It is in the Greek present tense. John also tells us that painful sores break out on their body. How can anyone “rest day or night” when they have painful such sores on their body and are forced to worship the beast?

Jesus quotes from Isaiah 66:24 “Their worm does not die And the fire is not quenched.” in Mark 9:44,46,48

The righteous “go out and look” on their enemies” corpses… They look at corpses (Hebrew: pegerim), not living people. They view their destruction, not their misery.  The figure of unquenchable fire is frequent in scripture and signifies a fire that consumes (Ezekiel 20:47, 48), reduces to nothing (Amos 5:5,6) or burns up something (Matt 3:12).

“There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.” Luke 13:28 

He means on that day:

  • There will be many sad people “weeping” at the realization that they have just lost the chance for immortality and will soon be put to death forever.
  • There will be many very angry people gnashing their teeth at God. It is they who will probably be cursing at God (i.e. gnashing their teeth) all the way to their last breath before being destroyed.

What about the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16?

The teaching of Conditional Immortality means that the soul of man is finally destroyed on the Day of Judgement at the end of this age. Therefore, technically speaking, this scripture has no bearing on this doctrine.

  • There is sufficient reason for understanding this passage of scripture as a parable.
  • The previous four stories were all parables (Luke 15:4, 15:8, 15:11, 16:1) The parable which He just told them, also began with the exact same words “There was a certain rich man,” (Luke 16:1).
  • These two stories both have to do with “mammon” (money) and the misuse of it. If the first is clearly a parable, why not the second, for it is in the exact same section of scripture?
  • The point of the parable is at the end, “And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.” (Luke 16:31)
  • The Greek word used in this passage is not Gehenna (hell), but it is Hades (temporary abode of the dead). It is a different Greek word.
  • Hades will be itself emptied and destroyed one day. Revelation 20:14.

Does the one who told us to love our enemies intend to wreak vengeance on his own enemies for all eternity? No! thank God.

ETERNITY IN HEAVEN OR HELL?

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Hell

It is evident from the current fallen state of the human race, that we do not live on a planet that resembles paradise, where harmony exists and where death is absent. This is because two people, Adam and Eve decided to disobey God, even after all that God had provided for them, an awesome home (Earth), a beautiful garden with abundant food, the ability to procreate and have dominion over it all.

People alive today have the same choice as Adam and Eve  that is to obey God or reject Him and face the consequences of separation from God, only this time forever, with no second chance.

Jesus , the Son of God , gave Himself as a sacrifice for the payment of sin, not just for Adam and Eve, but for the sins of everyone who ever lived. We, therefore, have a choice to repent of our sin (disobedience) and accept Jesus offer of a new life with Him as Lord and Saviour or stay separated from God forever.

Today, instead of just one fallen angel deceiving two people, we have Satan and his demonic forces as well as two billion people who are against Jesus and deny God. There are global media corporations, government schools and universities that promote the theory of evolution and mock religion. Despite this seeming overwhelming force against God the choice is still the same, it’s a choice of heaven or hell, whether you believe it or not.

The stakes are high because we all face judgment and then eternity in a new heaven and earth with your Creator God or eternity in hell without Him.

 

Relevance of Creation to sharing your faith

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Dynamic street evangelist Henry De Roos gives practical advice on how to use evidence about God’s creation to share the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Listen to the first five minutes of this video to get Henry De Roos testimony. A Science teacher with two degrees who discovered he was unable to defend his faith and decided to do something about it.